Posts Tagged ‘christian faith’

Who Hijacked Reality / #518 Christian quotes..

Sunday, July 31st, 2011

 

 

Journal Entry #518

July 31st, 2011

I often see these quotes put up by Christians or believers of other faiths that they feel represent their beliefs. The vast majority of time I don’t think the person who made the quote or the person offering the quote really thinks what is said through.

Now at first glance and if you are viewing life a certain way these quotes might appear wonderful but anytime you are dealing with unverifiable, illogical or an unreasonable position or statement it will be unsound  when examined with the former.

This was a quote put up by a Christian;

And so with God.

Now here is the entire quote they used part of and then added the statement “And so with God”.

 “Faith is forced consent. . . . In common parlance we say a man commands confidence.  We do not trust a man simply because we have willed to, or even because we desire to.  And we cannot distrust a man simply because we wish or will to do so.  We trust a man because we have evidence that to us appears sufficient, evidence of trustworthiness.  When to our apprehension a man presents evidence of trustworthiness we cannot but trust him, even though we hate his trustworthiness and would wish the opposite to be the case.  His trustworthiness may be the ruin of what we think to be our interests, but we cannot but trust him (e.g. the criminal who wants to evade justice, arraigned before a judge whom he believes to be just and fair, may do everything in his power to do away with the judge.  But why?  Because he trusts him.)  We cannot but believe in his reliability and truthfulness.”

John Murray, “Faith,” in Collected Writings of John Murray (Edinburgh, 1977), II:237, italics his.

So let’s take apart the quote the Christian offered;

“Faith is forced consent. . . .

Faith is nothing of the sort, faith is believing something to be true that is not supported by verifiable or credible evidence. You want it to be true so you accept it as true even though you have no idea if it is or not. Forced consent of course are opposites so why say this? Pick a side here.

In common parlance we say a man commands confidence. We do not trust a man simply because we have willed to, or even because we desire to.

I completely disagree as everything we do we desire. It is our choice to trust or not to trust and it will be based on the reasons we see as valid whether they are or not.

 And we cannot distrust a man simply because we wish or will to do so.

Of course we can…

We trust a man because we have evidence that to us appears sufficient, evidence of trustworthiness.” –John Murray

I do agree…

And so with God.

Again I agree as I must based on agreement with the first part but this brings us to the real question, how do we determine the evidence to be true, to be valid.

This is what it usually boils down to the evidence we chose to trust and to ignore. The problem with trusting god and I will say this in context with the gods of man is that there has not been one bit of good evidence offered up until this point and since there has been sufficient time to find it I expect none to ever be offered. Really what appears to be sufficient is just bad evidence and if that is all one needs to have trust in something or someone then trust is not truly valued as it should be.

Very few quotes in support of god ever make any sense but they do fulfill the desires a person may have.

Footprints

One night I had a dream–

I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord

and across the sky flashed scenes from my life.

For each scene I noticed two sets of footprints,

one belonged to me and the other to the Lord.

When the last scene of my life flashed before me,

I looked back at the footprints in the sand.

I noticed that many times along the path of my life,

there was only one set of footprints.

I also noticed that it happened at the very lowest

and saddest times in my life.

This really bothered me and I questioned the Lord about it.

“Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you,

you would walk with me all the way,

but I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life

there is only one set of footprints.

“I don’t understand why in times when I needed you most,

you should leave me.”

The Lord replied, “My precious, precious child,

I love you and I would never, never leave you

during your times of trial and suffering.

“When you saw only one set of footprints,

it was then that I carried you.”

 …Mary Stevenson

 

If you think this through it is full of holes but it sure does sound comforting and nice. At times in our life we need some comfort some fantasy but eventually reality needs to be acknowledged.  Maybe god should have prevented those terrible times in her life to begin with or created the world differently instead of being the saving daddy figure. He said I would never leave you and yet in my view to stand aside and watch someone suffer is leaving them. Now if this poem was about a human being who was there to help I think it would have more impact and value. I can break this down more but I get the point of the poem but think that including god in it is ridiculous unless it is just a metaphor. Sadly many will believe this god to be real.

The world of fantasy can truly be interesting but one will always eventually fall back to reality.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie

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Who Hijacked Reality / #388 Until you release your life to Him, you can never understand the ways of God. What a pile of shit.

Wednesday, March 23rd, 2011

 

Journal Entry #388

March 23rd, 2011

I constantly hear this from Christians usually at the very beginning of any discussion. This is the basic opening line and in their mind they have given me the most important piece of information that I will ever hear. Forget the fact that their god is not real. When that are really saying is that until I pretend like they do and forget any form of critical thinking I can never be part of the club. This is something I refuse to do.

I also have been in the Christian faith when I was much younger so this allows me to say that the experience they want me to have is one I already have been through. Now of course now they will find some sort of excuse around my experience not being the right one. I mean I must have done something wrong or I would still be a Christian. They will in no way accept the obvious answer that I realized god was not real and I no longer pretend. This to them is not valid. They are all about personal experience as evidence but it has to be the right experience. This is a pile of shit as far as I am concerned. A complete double standard and very hypocritical.

Here is an experience I had today to demonstrate this.. It started from a video posted which I will post as well for reference. It is a Christian appeal to emotion video so watch if you want to.

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5qgHtIlD0w

You won’t believe what’s at the center of the Bible!

Christian #2………………God is so amazing! Always revealing more of Himself to us. Did you know that in Hebrew text of the first 2 books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus) every 50th letter starts the word Torah. Torah is the Hebrew word for Instruction. It is what the first 5 books of the Bible have been termed. It has been translated into the English word Law. In any case in the 4th and 5th books of the Bible every 50th letter starts the word Torah spelled backwards. In the 3rd book of the Bible every 7th letter starts the word JHVW (the name of God). So, the first 2 books of the Torah and the last 2 books of the Torah point to God. Another sign that only God could have written the Bible.

Gary David Currie……….. ok I realize this is part of your worship but how in any way is this amazing our interesting unless your a believer and want it to be. I watched to the end like it asked so I feel I have the right to comment. One important flaw here. The entire reason according to the bible that we are in sin and in need of salvation is because Eve ate from the tree of knowledge Correct. So if she never did that we would never understand any of the hidden messages in the bible correct because we would be without the ability to acquire knowledge. So either he knew he was going to punish humanity for becoming intelligent and be able to look for these hidden messages which is cruel or there really is no hidden message. Either way this in no way verifies god like the above person said. All this is a plea to accept god..

Christian #1………….Gary, I almost didn’t post this because of some of the stuff at the end. I wouldn’t expect a non-Christian to appreciate it and I understand why you don’t. I mainly posted this for my Christian friends. I am not trying to prove God’s existence with this, just thought it was interesting.

Christian 2……….@Gary: I am a former US Marine, now pastor and Missionary. I had beliefs just like you at one point in time. The only thing I can tell you is that once you let God into your life and you accept Him as your Lord and Master, then He changes the inner man (your Spirit) – the real you. And He gives you the ability to understand things on His level. He gives you the answers to life. Until you release your life to Him, you can never understand the ways of God.

Gary David Currie  ……..normally I would not comment as per our agreement but the video said everyone must watch and to me this was an invitation..Just so you know I get this all the time that I will never understand because I have not accepted god but first this is not true. Secondly I have been a Christian so that negates in any way my inability to understand.. I understand well I just don’t pretend anymore. I won’t say any more out of respect to ____ but I am responding to your pleas …If you would like to talk more you can message me. Also I will say this I find that Christians want to be able to tell us about their god as commanded by their god but they do not want to engage in any form of discussion that does not agree with their message. I find this sad personally. If you cannot convince someone like me who calls himself a sceptic then how can you say it is true. It is easy to convert the ones who are desperate. This is a huge topic that cannot be easily discussed in a few moments of discussion. I am open-minded but not unintelligent as this gift was given to me by your god according to you as EVE ate from the tree of life.

Christian #2 also responded to me in a personal message which I believe is worth sharing…..

Hi Gary,

I certainly don’t want to get into a heated theological debate. It solves nothing. What I can say is that many people who claim they are Christians really have no clue and are not disciples of Jesus. Many times in the Bible Jesus tells us that as we must separate ourselves from the world and immerse ourselves in Him, then He reveals Himself to us. The ways of God make no sense to the world. Jesus says that to gain life you must lose it first. To be first in the Kingdom of God you must be last, to be exalted, you must be humbled. So on, and so on…. It starts as a heart thing, not a head thing. You cannot intellectualize God. He is the creator. We are only the creation. The pottery cannot say to the potter, I don’t want to be a vase, I want to be a bowl. We try to figure God out and that is impossible. First we must take a step of faith and realize that we need Him. Then we must be disciple to maturity. Many, many times the problem with Christians getting saved is that they are not rooted in firm soil. They have been planted in rocky soil or weeds and they eventually wither and die. To grow in Christ and gain knowledge from God you must continue to seek Him daily. It is a journey, but well worth it.

It was nice talking to you Gary,

Gary David Currie March 23 at 7:42pm

But you didn’t talk to me you did exactly as I said Christians do you preached to tell me what you think but you don’t want to hear what I have to say. I find this narrow minded to be honest. Also what you have said is based only on your opinion and I would absolutely disagree. What you are telling me is that I was not the right kind of Christian. I noticed you did not ask me any questions to try and find out more or to understand Also sad.. What this really means is that my experience with Christianity because it does not yield the result you feel it must is not correct. Did you ever think that my experience might be right and that once I realized that god probably was not real that I had found the truth? Take offence if you want to be this demonstrated a closed-minded attitude on your part. When you are actually ready to talk which actually includes listening then write me again. I am well aware of the Christian faith and what is required to be a Christian I am just not willing to pretend like the rest of you that god is real. I actually value the truth not what I want to be true.

I won’t say it was nice talking with you because that actually hasn’t happened yet.

Gary

These are just tactics to avoid any type of actual critical thinking that they don’t want face. I have said this before that it is like talking to a stone. This is just more evidence that god is not real and that they are just pretending. I hope one day people are willing to admit this and actually deal with reality.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie

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Who Hijacked Reality / #356 The death and torture of Jesus and why anyone would think this was a good thing in any way.

Sunday, February 20th, 2011

 

 

Journal Entry #356

February 20th, 2011

This picture was posted on a Christians Face Book page.

CHRISTIAN COMMENT……..its for you and me

Gary David Currie……………. How can anybody in their right mind think that this violent act is ok in anyway. What kind of a need must you feel you have to fill by the violent torture and death of another human being. Then post a comment like “it’s for you and me.” I am amazed that people do not see the reality of what this represents. This is in my opinion a very twisted thought process.

I have talked about this before but it certainly deserves more attention as this is the foundation for the Christian faith, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is the entire message salvation or damnation. Since my blog is all about reality let’s look at the reality of this concept.

The obvious is that an all powerful god in order to make up for his mistakes in his creation which he feels are beyond any other type of help sends his only son to earth to be tortured and murdered so that all humanity could then have a choice of salvation by accepting the idea that he died for your sins or damnation if in any way you reject this so called gift. I would think that an all powerful god could certainly come up with a better solution I can think of a whole bunch and if I can then I am pretty sure he can. So really he is not all powerful at all if he has to fix a mistake. Now since I do not in any way but into this silliness I can see this as a flaw as a god which means he is no god at all.

Secondly if you feel that all of your so called sins are forgiven and forgotten just because you declared your love and acceptance of Jesus you have negated the basic idea of responsibility for your actions.

I am constantly told by the faithful that Jesus absolves all the rest of the bible and that is what they truly follow. They say this like it is a good thing. Now let me see the god they worship felt there was no other alternative but to send his only son to be tortured, did you hear me tortured and this would be an example of an all loving god. Child sacrifice seems to me to not be an accepted part of this modern age. Imagine if anyone on this planet engaged in the act of child sacrifice? How do you think this would play out?

In my opinion there is nothing and I mean nothing Ok in any way with the foundation of this religion or faith and if you think there is your morality is very twisted. They also say to me that god is the source of their morality and all of humanities. I am glad that all of us do not take this to heart.

Also in the bible this death is blamed on the Jews for calling for it and the Romans for carrying the deed out. This scenario has been used as an excuse to perpetrate some of the most hateful, terrible acts humanity has engaged in.

The entire concept of a god having a son and all the implications surrounding this raise so many red flags but they are ignored as well.

The reality of this is that none of it is probably true. Even if Jesus existed there is no way of verifying any of the history around this event. There is no evidence to support it as anything remotely supernatural. So if the foundation of Christianity is probably wrong then I would say everything else that is involved is probably not true as well, time for people to let this delusion go.

Being a realist that is not going to happen any time soon but it really needs to. People will still want their needs fulfilled and if it takes believing in the torture of another human being to do this they will do it.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie

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Who Hijacked Reality / #242 Christians / Atheists we are talking to different languages.

Thursday, November 4th, 2010

hijacked logo

 

 

 

Journal Entry # 242

November 4th, 2010

As I have stated before I am on a lifelong journey were I will continue to learn and grow. At no time do I ever think I am 100% right on any matter. I fully admit I can be wrong on anything. This journal is dedicated to the concept of reality specifically dealing with truth.

I have been talking about my views as an Atheist/ realist/ one who seeks truth for years but over the past 6 months since I have actively engaged in conversations on face book mostly about religion and I feel I am at a point now where I can offer a very important observation which I feel will be helpful to all of humanity.

               peace-sign

I have understood the concept I am about to present and asked many to define terminology so that we are speaking on a level playing field in these discussions. I now realize this is very difficult for many and to be frank not really that important to many as well. What I would like to do is to demonstrate the differences in terms that I feel are the major blockage in understanding each other. You might have a different meaning to what I say but I hope you get the general idea. The problems I see are that we are talking 2 different languages. Now I am referring to the Christian faith but these can be exchanged for most faiths with a few exceptions.

When I say God I mean a deity created that is allegedly responsible for the creation of all things and worshipped by man. The Christian means the loving father, the one and true god that has given them life on this earth and salvation if they chose in eternity, the creator of our morality and the father of Jesus who sacrificed his life for us.

When I say truth I mean what is that cannot be changed. The Christian means all that god represents and all he has said through his complete and perfect word.

When I say Jesus I mean a mythical figure supposed to be the son of the Christian god. The Christian means the ever loving son of god who sacrificed his life so that we may have eternal life through him the absolute symbol of love, the truth the light the way to salvation.

When I say Christian I mean one who follows the Christian god. The Christian means the one true way to live life on this earth representing all that is good to follow in the footsteps of Jesus as much as a human can and to live by his laws.

When I say Free will I mean the concept of making choices within the laws of nature. The Christian means the Choice god has given us through Jesus to choose salvation or damnation.

When I say Religion I mean following a chosen god. The Christian means organized followers of god who have lost their way not staying true to their faith.

When I say they are brainwashed they say they are cleansed.

When I say they are blind they say I am lost.

Above all they know they have no need to prove anything as god will take care of revealing himself to me in his time and then I will either chose to accept the gift or not.

I think you get the idea. What we need to do if we are going to talk is to understand one another at the very beginning.   I do try this but I also understand why it will not seem necessary to most as they feel they have no need to do this and that it is commanded of them to spread the word and message of salvation of god. All other things are preliminaries to this goal. There is no need to prove god exists of course he does and I am just not seeing what they see.

peace fingers

     PEACE DESPITE    VIOLENCE

I will refer to a comment made by someone who shall remain unnamed. I believe his summation is to the point.

Einstein pointed out, Christ is too imposing a figure to be dispelled by clever argument (he used the phrase “bon mot”, but I just can’t bring myself to use it in a sentence). The… term ‘religion’ doesn’t refer to bare philosophy, but to an ambiguously delineated constellation of social institutions. Well intentioned people (environmentalists, advocates for social justice, and so forth) have been very reluctant to adopt the term “culture war”, but when two sides of a debate involve disagreement on simple matters of fact (the age of the earth, whether the constitution establishes a separation between church and state, whether black and white people have the same number of ankle bones), there is at least an important divergence of worldview.

When secular progressives argue with conservative Christians (or, probably, theists of any stripe) they are like ships passing in the night because they are using essentially different definitions for important words like “god”, “gods”, “true”, “good”, “meaning”, “real”, “evil”, “freedom”, etc. For example, to me, the word “gods” is simply the plural of the singular “god”; but to a Christian the first immediately connotes corruption and threat while the second connotes goodness, decency and meaning. Thus, when I utter the phrase “there’s no such thing as god” what they hear is “there is no goodness, meaning or hope in the world”; of course they disagree!

Essential to understanding the religious worldview is understanding the tribalism of the thing. The most fundamental dichotomy in this worldview in between those in the tribe (the “saved”, “blessed”, “chosen”, “elect” or “believers”) and those outside of it (I.e “sinners”, “infidels”, “nonbelievers”, “Gentiles”, “barbarians”, etc) therefore, to draw a comparison between those in the group to those outside is to suggest the self-evidently absurd.

The one message I hear clearly from the ones I have talked to is that god is a god of love and that ultimately he will be the judge. If this is an ideal that Christians hold to I ask this of you as a Faith.

Leave the judging to god; Spread his word but that word should be about love and salvation. We must have separation of church and state to protect us all. The world will always have diversity and I ask that we all have mutual respect for this as long as people remain within the laws we have established as a society that benefit all.

As an example; Prayer should stay out of the schools to protect us all. If you allow one Faith then you must allow all faiths. This principal applies to all of public life.

Show equality for all humans. If you disagree lead by example and do not force you views through interference in government. Let god judge when he is ready.

Hopefully we will always be diverse as humans so I believe we must learn to respect one another and work together for the common good of humanity. 

                together_we_will

             We must work together

The time and energy spent on changing people towards your way of thinking should be applied towards solvable problems that plague humanity like poverty, preventable disease and wars. Let’s concentrate on those as well.

It is also very important that we continue to engage and challenge each other in the arena of debate but we must do it respectfully. All people should be allowed access to information to be able to choose for themselves. I believe this to be one the most important posts I have written and I hope it has the impact I feel this information deserves. I will continue to learn and grow and I hope others will as well. This advise applies to me as ell

Call me what you will an accommodationist, panderer or anything else you can think of for I consider myself a realist and the reality is that if things are to get better we need to understand and respect each other in our diversity while continuing to be strong in our individual messages.

I am all about truth and the desire for PEACE for all of humanity; I hope you are as well.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie

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