I am going to enter the realm of fantasy here because it sure is fun at times.
If I had eternal life what would I do? What would that life be like? Would I be bound by all the rules that I am now except that I would live forever?
Once in awhile I get a little annoyed that at some point I have to die, that my life span can only go so far and I will never see what the future will be say 100 years from now. I get annoyed that I have to go through the process of aging and all the problems that accompany this but would eternal life solve these problems?
What happens if the earth blows up, then what would I do? Will I be the only one? When all the people I care about are gone what will I do? If I am in heaven what will that be like. I certainly will not be human any more so what will my existence be?
What will I do forever? Will there be days and nights? The way life exists now is what makes it worth living so if I will never die where will the risk be. Can I get sick? Will I be impervious to health issues?
I hope you can see my point. The idea behind most religions is the promise or reward of eternal life but as you can see it will never be what we imagine it to be. Hell people get bored easily here so imagine having to fill in everyday for eternity. Will I remain at the same intelligence level?
It simply is not something we would truly want even though we think we do. Like all things once the mystery and infatuation is exhausted then eternal life will be based on a set of rules.
Life works because we are going to die at some point. It is this threat that allows us to value life, without it I cannot imagine an existence worth living.
Why is it that millions of Christians from many different denominations feel that Jesus Christ is so special. What sets Jesus apart from any other human being that has ever lived or is living now? What is a true follower of Jesus?
Gary wrote “Once again we arrive at the question of what is a true Christian”
Christians answer…..One that has surrendered his life to Jesus, that is a true Christian. One that puts faith in God above all else, one that studies the word (instead of justifying …actions by the word), one that loves his neighbour. One that is not ruled by desire for possessions or controlling people. It’s clear enough if you want to search it out.
What is it that Jesus offers humanity? What has he offered that no other has offered? Are the lessons he taught so special that they warrant this devoted following? Were there any others before him that offered similar lessons and advise? Was Jesus just one of many self proclaimed prophets of his time or did he even exist at all?
These are all interesting questions but what really matters here is that Jesus is only special because his followers believe he offers them magical answers to their desires and without this magic Jesus would just be another man no different than you or I if he was real.
The foundation of Christianity is based on Salvation through Jesus Christ. That salvation is everlasting life in Heaven and that is really what the belief is all about. Without this giant cookie being offered what would be the point. I am sure you can figure out on your own that it is a good thing to live by the golden rule. It is better to love and treat each other with dignity and respect that it is to harm one another. In fact we have learned so much more since the time of Jesus about life, about what works and what does not. Many have offered sound guidance for others to live a better fulfilling life so why all the fuss over Jesus.
It is all about the goodies, the magic, the rewards and what better as an ultimate reward than eternal life full of joy and happiness except for one tiny little detail, it simply is not true. I believe there are better guides in life than Jesus in fact there are many alive right now that we know are real. We can interact with them and apply what they offer to life right now.
Take away the eternal reward and Jesus is not so special, take away all the other goodies and god is not so special. I am sorry folks but if you are a believer the reality is that you are deceiving yourself by thinking Jesus is special.
The Illusion of JESUS
I guarantee you that if I could perform similar feats of magic in this day and age of equal comparison that my words would be valued. My life would seem special and I would have millions of followers. People crave what they perceive to be real when it fulfills their desires and if there is any perceived verification they are on board.
Now the acts of magic would have to be so incredible as to cast no doubt for the magic offered in the bible by Jesus would be considered parlour tricks in this modern world. Perhaps if could align the planets to spell my name I am sure I could get people’s attention. Wait a minute all I need to do is a few parlour tricks because if millions believe in stories from 2,000 years ago imagine what they would believe if they saw it with their own eyes today.
Jesus was not special only the idea of what people think Jesus offers is special and the problem with this, it simply is not true. No magic no Jesus.
So when you pray tonight ask Jesus to reveal himself to a non believer like me, ask him to bring some magic into this world and then we might think that Jesus is actually special. I do more for the world than Jesus ever did and so do you because we are actually real.
If Jesus showed up today and offered the same miracles from 2,000 years ago he would not even get noticed. Think about this, don’t you wonder why the miracles fit the times they were written in.
Come on people there is no heaven and there is no magic there is only reality. The reality is that Jesus really has nothing to offer because he is not real but he is a real myth.
There are many obvious harmful attributes to religion / faith but I would like to focus on the ones that people claim are not harmful, things where people say why is it so wrong for my mom to believe in god she is not harming anyone? Yes she is she is harming herself and those that believe in this nonsense.
If you believe that this life is not the end game and you are going to a better place several problems arise. First you will not value this life as much as you should if you feel you are going to live forever.
I suggest and this may seem cruel that all those who are not valuing this as the one and only life you get move on and let those who want to value it enjoy it. If all the religious people decided to leave the ones left can get on with a positive world.
An example and they are all over the place;
This world has nothing for me. I have work to do here but I’m looking forward to retirement in heaven.
Comments from this;
-Oh, so am I!
-My soul grows so weary sometimes.
-Yes, I know – mine does also. There is too much evil in this world to bear – the first of which is death.
Here the same person makes this claim;
Here is a great example of how my God works: I just got my car out of the shop with a bill that wiped out my savings. This morning I checked my financial aid status and I had been awarded an amount that, after paying for my classes, left me with $20 over what my car cost to fix. Brush it off as coincidence if you want to, but I choose to believe my God is taking care of me.
When one does not take responsibility for not only their life but their actions the consequences can get crazy. It is not healthy for humans to feel they are going to heaven which has absolutely no verification and also no detailed description but people do anyways. The very idea that one can beat the laws of nature shows delusion, Now we have to follow all the rules to get the rewards and that is where the real problems begin that we see daily around the world.
It is difficult to have healthy relationships both personally and globally while engaged in these delusions. How can you learn and grow if you are blaming your failures on the devil and your success on god. This is unrealistic and not rational. As humans we have discovered so much that will help in having good relationships and god is not one of them.
Now amongst the comments above we see the idea that one has a soul which again has absolutely no evidence. Reality once accepted offers a much better opportunity to be successful. If there is a problem in your relationship you look for solutions that are realistic, if your child becomes ill you turn to modern medicine as the best option. You don’t try and pray it away you will do the very best to get the best help you can. You appreciate each day as though it may be your last and value all those around you.
To believe that one retires in Heaven is again delusional. If it was real we would have no idea what it would be like so it could be eternal torture as well. The idea here is to just accept reality and deal with life on those terms. Once people accept the reality of life it takes on a new meaning. If we all did this then imagine how many violent conflicts we can avoid right now. It is those little delusional thoughts that sow the seeds of bigger problems.
So stop waiting for heaven or leave now so the rest of us who actually want to be here can get on with life. I am confident that so many of humanities problems would go along for the ride.
Now I have read the books by Neal Donald Walsh entitled Conversations with god but as I was sent this video today it reminded me of their content. I am writing it all out and if you read it one can see how easy it would be to get sucked into this when the man behind the curtain speaks and the double talk begins. Just place whatever god you believe in as the god who is speaking. That alone should tell you this is nonsense. Once you jump into the delusion for even a second you are then trapped in the whirlpool of doubt and faith.
It is absurd to argue from a position of fantasy as nothing can ever be confirmed or denied that is why one must accept reality and argue from reason where a conclusion can often be determined beyond a reasonable doubt.
This is where religion / faith based claims fail every time..
Gary David Currie
Narrator – there is so much I want to say to you so much I want to ask, I don’t know where to begin. For instance why is it you do not revel yourself? If there really is a god and your it why do you not revel yourself in a way we can all understand?
GOD- I have done so over and over. I’m doing so again right now.
Narrator- no, no I mean by a method of revelation that is incontrovertible, cannot be denied.
GOD- Such as
Narrator- such as appearing right now before my eyes
GOD- I am doing so right now.
GOD- Everywhere you look.
Narrator – No , no I mean in an incontrovertible way,
GOD- What way would that be? In what form or shape would you have me appear?
Narrator- In the form or shape you actually have.
God- That would be impossible for I have no shape or form you would understand. I could adopt a shape or form that you could understand but then everyone would assume that what they have seen is the one and only form and shape of god rather than form or shape of god one of many. People believe I am what they see me as rather than what they do not see but I am the great unseen. Not what I cause myself to be in any particular moment. In a sense I am what I am not. It is from the am notness that I come and to it I always return. In when I come in one particular form or another the form in which I think people can understand me people assign me that form forever more. And should I come in any other form to any other people, the first say I did not appear to the second because I did not look to the second as I did to the first. Nor say the same things. So how could it have been me? You see it not matters in what form or what manner I reveal myself whatever matter I chose whatever form I take none will be incontrovertible.
Narrator-But if you did something that would evidence the truth of who you are beyond doubt or question.
GOD- There are still those who would say it is of the devil or simply someone’s imagination or any cause other than me. If I revealed myself as god almighty king of heaven and earth and moved mountains to prove it there are those who would say it must have been Satan. NAs such is as it should be. A god does not reveal god self to god self through outward observation but through inward experience. And when inward experience has revealed god self outward observation is not necessary. And id outward observation is necessary inward experience is not possible, If then revelation is requested it cannot be had for the act of asking is the statement that it is not there. Then nothing of god is now being revealed such a statement produces the experience. For your thought about something as creative and your word is productive and your thought and your word together are magnificently effective in giving birth to your reality. Therefore now you shall experience that god is now not revelled where if god where you would not ask god to be.
Narrator- Does that mean I cannot ask for anything I want? Are you saying that praying for something actually pushes it away from us?
GOD- This is a question that has been asked through the ages and has been answered whenever it has been asked. Yet you have not heard the answer or will not believe it. The question is answered again in today’s terms and today’s language which must be you will not have that through which you ask or can you have anything you won’t. This is because your very request is a statement of lack of your saying you want to produce that exact experience wanting in your reality. The correct prayer is therefore never a prayer of supplication but a prayer of gratitude. When you thank god in advance for which you chose to experience in your reality you in effect acknowledge it is there. Thankfulness is thus the most powerful statement to god and affirmation that even before you ask I have answered. Therefore never supplicate, appreciate.
Narrator-But what if I am grateful to god in advance for something and it never shows up that could lead to disillusionment and bitterness.
God – Gratitude cannot be used as a tool to which to manipulate god, a device to which t fool the universe. You cannot lie to yourself your mind knows the truth of your thoughts. You are saying thank you god for such and such all the while being clear that it isn’t there in your present reality, you cannot expect god to be less clear than you so produce it for you. God knows what you know and what you know is what appears as your reality.
Narrator- But how then can I be truly grateful for something I know is not there?
God- Faith, if you have but the faith of a mustard seed you shall move mountains. You come to know it is there because I said it is there because I said that even before you asked I shall have answered. Because I said and have said to you in every conceivable way, through every teacher you can name that whatsoever you shall chose. Choosing it in my name shall it be.
Narrator- Yet so many people say that their prayers have gone unanswered.
God- No prayer and a prayer is nothing more than fervent statement of what is so goes unanswered. Every prayer every thought every feeling is creative and it is fervently held as truth to that degree will it be made manifest in your experience. When it is said that a prayer has not been answered what in actuality has happened is that the most fervently held thought word or feeling has become imperative. Yet what you must know and here’s the secret is that always it is the thought behind the thought what might be called the sponsoring thought that is the controlling thought. If therefore you beg and supplicate there is as much smaller chance you will experience what you think you are chasing. Because the sponsoring thought behind every supplication is that you do not have now what you wish. The sponsoring thought becomes your reality. The only sponsoring thought which could override this thought is the thought held in faith that god will grant whoever is asked without fail. Some people have such faith very few
Wow that sure was a lot of WU WU just to say you need faith. If you buy into this for just one moment you are doomed to accept it all. The man behind the curtain will pull you into the delusion and once in it is very hard to get out. The circular reasoning is mind blowing.
You either see this or you do not. This is why I always go by the evidence. I always know where I stand using it. I can easily see how people who accept that their desires will be fulfilled will then be trapped in the web. Sorry but I do want evidence and it is up to god if he is real to provide it but he is not so it will not be there but the illusion will be.
If you just believe then anything will be true or so they say. I am not buying it for one second. I might add that if I started hearing these voices in my head I would get it checked out right away.
It is funny how we do not accept anything else in life on faith accept our gods..
Now I and many others have addressed these arguments before but they still keep using them.
First of all to even assert that god is real beyond any doubt is ignorance but people do it anyway. The arguments offered by Ravi are not new or convincing to anyone who applies any reason but will be to those looking to reaffirm their delusion. If people would just be willing to admit that they really don’t know but that is what they want to believe at least they would be honest.
At least they are tying meet the burden of proof for the claim, I will give him that.
RAVI…………1.However you slice up the universe you end up with a physical quantity that does not have the reason for existence in itself.
Ultimately the physical universe cannot explain its own origins
It has to find its explanation outside of itself.
Which means the first explanation has to have something non physical as its cause.
GARY…..first he has made an assumption that the universe is as he thinks when in reality we really don’t know. We have not even begun to explore physically outside of our own galaxy. Add to that the size of the known yes I said known universe which is approx. 120 billion galaxies with each galaxy having over 100 billion stars in it which means 100 billion possible solar systems and you can right away say that his first statement is one of ignorance. I want you to digest the actual size of the universe. The closest star after our sun is Alpha Centauri which is 4.3 light years away. So really we have no idea if the rest of the universe does not have reason to exist if we slice it up. This is false assumption on his part.
Why would the physical universe need to explain itself? It appears that only man needs an explanation.
To say that explanation must come from outside itself is a contradiction; anything presumed to be outside itself would still be part of the universe and still part of reality. He has like many others assumed there is another realm beyond reality and the universe but has absolutely no evidence for this. We can assume and imagine many possibilities, alternate universes, parallel universes, sub atomic space and the list goes on. Again he has decided on one answer with no evidence without offering any other choices or possibilities. Why, because it fits the agenda which is to prove god. This is bad science and bad theology..
He says it has to find its explanation when he really doesn’t know this at all. This is a logical fallacy and just plain ignorant to be honest.
RAVI………….2. the argument not from design but to design. When you see information prior to that is a mind.
There is sequence to the whole thing. The old random nothing from nothing argument using the enzyme as an argument. The possibility of that by chance is 1o to the power of 40,000. That is more than the number of atoms in this universe. Mathematically the possibility is zero.
The answer is not zero do the math.
How can you trust what he says after he lies like that.
This is the argument from design and you can look this up on the internet and find several refutes of it. But I will give you some brief things to think about.
The question always becomes here who made the designer and the answer cannot be the Alpha and Omega because that is just circular logic and there is no evidence for this. Is it possible yes but highly improbable.
The argument I hear is that we could not have come from nothing but yet they want me to believe that god made us from dirt. Well where did the dirt come from? Yes we can come from nothing. Science has pretty much recreated this in the lab but even still we actually come from stardust.
But here is the important part even if I agree that there must be a designer which I do not I simply say I don’t know then you cannot put your god in as the answer until you have eliminated all other possible answers as false.
Our universe and humans exist because all the conditions are right but it certainly is not designed. It is a poor design if it is. The list is endless to show how the design could be much better. We breathe through the same hole we eat out of creating a better chance of chocking. Evolution once understood is a much better explanation for everything. It is also a fact with tons of evidence verifying the process. To deny it is just plain ignorant to be honest.
RAVI….. .human existence demands the existence of a moral reality.
GARY….The morality argument.. it is a terrible argument and I actually just wrote on this. C.S. Lewis sates that there is what is called the law of morality. Again evolution explains things much better and if you really study history you can see how our morals developed. What is morality the choices we determine as right and wrong that will benefit us the most. This one is too big to get into here but I will say this. If the god of the bible is moral and I have read the bible then we are screwed because he killed more people in the first part than all of humanity combined. Over 2 million not counting the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. So if he is the law giver I want no part of it. He is cruel, unjust and a murderer.
Ravi…….4 fundamental questions in life origins , meaning.. morality and destiny..
Gary……. I can agree with this but I will add that it only pertains to humanity as we know it. A dog does not care about these questions for the dog they will be very different. So this implies that we are so important that all other life does not matter in their meaning.
Answer only god is big enough to explain this universe.
His answer is wrong and I have explained why with only a few examples and there are many more. There are plenty of other answers but the correct one at this time is this;
WE REALLY DON”T KNOW.. so if you don’t know and humans love to know we must acknowledge we don’t know and not try and pretend we know.
It really bothers me when people like Ravi try and pretend they have the answers when they really don’t. Why can’t they just be truthful and say they don’t know. That would be honest for a change.
These arguments have been refuted over and over so really it is just time for people to let go. Ultimately the real question that is important is, is it true, does god exist? Can we ultimately answer this 100%, no but we can beyond a reasonable doubt and the answer is no.