Posts Tagged ‘proof’

Who Hijacked Reality/ #520 Does it really matter if Jesus was real or not…

Tuesday, August 2nd, 2011

 

 

Journal Entry #520

August 2nd, 2011

I often get these links from people trying to prove to me that Jesus was real, These links try so hard to verify what really doesn’t matter. Now so far they have not been able to validate that the person known as Jesus of Nazareth who is god in human form ever existed.

Even if he did without modern methods of verification it is virtually impossible to prove this. What we think as individuals Jesus would be like is just pure speculation. The portrayal of him in the bible also pure speculation unless we could get some video footage or audio recording to get some idea of him it really is redundant.

This is a link I was sent today and my response. I did read it but got bored very quickly;

ABOUT EXACT DATE JESUS WAS BORN

http://petragrail.tripod.com/page5.html

The world was transfixed by the year 2000–worried about the’Y2K’ bug in computers, millennial madness in cult groups, political union in Europe, and a proposal to make Mary “co-redemptrix” in the Catholic Church. While Rome flirted with blasphemy, few realized that the true 2000th lunar a..

 

Gary David Currie…

All I can say is really who cares when Jesus was born. I only care about the claim of him being the son of god all else is just another possible person in history who may or may not have done some great things. He probably was not the only one …who spouted some wisdom if he was real as many others were born before him so he learned from others as well. The point here is that people claim a supernatural element which they then cannot even come close to offering any proof. Again I don’t really care if Jesus was real or not like I don’t care if Darwin was real or not although the evidence that he was real is much stronger than that of Jesus but he was just a man who noticed something unique in life that has changed the way we look at the universe we live in.

 

Now this is the crucial question that must be answered as the entire Christian faith is built upon this one idea, that Jesus was the son of god. This is what must be verified. Positive evidence must be offered not negative and to this day as non-believers keep pointing out not one bit of good evidence has been offered so you would think it would be time to give it up and accept that god is probably not real.

Like I said I only care that people claim that Jesus was a supernatural god and the implications that follow this. Jesus the man we will never know and what would a 2,000 year old man think of this world. Would the miracles accredited to him be child’s play to what we can do today? I think so.

It is time to stop putting this figure humanity has created as the central guiding force in life. There are plenty of people alive today who have better guidance then Jesus and I don’t see anyone alive today being verified as a god.

They just don’t listen..

I don’t see people running around trying to prove if any other figures from the bible were real as the focus seems to be on Jesus and of course this is because of the claim of being a supernatural being offering salvation and eternal life through his murder.

Now I realize that without this the faith falls apart which it should because it has not been proven in any way to be true. So much time, energy and money wasted on a myth. So much misery and pain inflicted because of the belief in one man as anything but ordinary based on a book written by men of their time about the human condition of their time. This is all it should be recognized as.

What would Jesus do needs to stop being used as Jesus would not do anything we would do today. He would be lost in this modern world.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie

Who Hijacked Reality / #392 The success of any delusional thinking depends on keeping it a mystery.

Sunday, March 27th, 2011

 

 

Journal Entry #392

March 27th, 2011

Once the veil has been lifted and the aura of the mystery is identified how can one continue to accept delusional thoughts as real? The answer is they cannot and that is why the mystery must be maintained and promoted. I see it frequently. My job is to remove this mystery by offering credible evidence as well as demonstrating that the claim is not valid. The hoops one has to jump through to do this seem endless.

A great example of this is on the show “THE BIG BANG THEORY”. Sheldon is considered a genius even by his own mother. He denies the existence of Jesus and yet his mother who considers him very smart still denies his conclusion.  The character will not face the facts. I know this is a TV show with fictional characters but I can easily see this scenario being played out in real life. In fact I have witnessed it myself many times.

I often say in regards to any gods that are claimed that if that particular god where to just present themselves and verify that they are who they claim to be then the matter would be settled but this would take away the mystery. There is nothing like actually having proof to put an issue to rest.

We can see that science daily offers explanations that then become verified for many of the mysteries we wonder about. Once it is a fact we move on to the next one. The problem with mysteries like gods or anything related to these esoteric concepts is that they are currently beyond or reach to be able to give a definitive answer; they deal with the big questions. Still we are ignorant and in denial if we do not accept the knowledge about these concepts that we already know and that is exactly what happens.

There are plenty of mysteries that are based in reality but unfortunately the answers or the possibility of getting an answer seem beyond our grasp. As the physicist Brian Cox says “if you just hold up a dime towards the sky in that spot there are 10,000 galaxies” I am paraphrasing from a quote I read.   http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zdhtg Now if that does not offer mystery I don’t know what does. If we could just understand that when we don’t know something the very first answer we need to give is “I don’t know.”

I have covered the many reasons we engage in delusional thinking and the reasons that as a society we accept those delusions as normal but I would hope that we continue to as I and many others  focus on what is probably true and not keep filling in the blanks / mystery with manmade concepts that are steeped in mystery.

I consistently see people try to fill in these blanks and when challenged they do everything to a void actually facing the challenge. I see k the truth and this should be the goal for all but right now it is not. They believe it is and of course feel I am the one that is delusional because I do not engage in the fantasy of the month but I hope this will continue to change. I see this change slowly happening but it is happening.  I am going to repost a great video from Michio Kaku on our chance of moving on as a species. This will directly relate to the reason mystery and how we approach it is so important.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24407  Will mankind destroy itself?    

Mystery and the wonder of seeking out what we do not know is fantastic but that search must be based in reality dealing with the process that science and reason has given us to verify truth. If you just speculate and take as true the answer you feel is right without verifying it or even basing it in reality then you are probably dealing with delusional thinking and this really needs to stop.

Each mystery we unravel brings us closer to a sane world.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie

Who Hijacked Reality / #353 Music, the perfect analogy for the concept of god.

Thursday, February 17th, 2011

 

Journal Entry #353

February 17th, 2011

The challenge in discussing religion / faith / gods is to try and find a different way each time to basically say the same thing. It always seems to boil down to reason vs. Faith as there to this moment in my opinion no verifiable or credible evidence for the existence of the gods of man. What we are looking at is why a person believes in their chosen god even though the evidence clearly if we are to accept the idea of reason demonstrates that there probably is no god.

I recently through a discussion saw the analogy of music as a great example to demonstrate the differences. As a musician, songwriter, artist and many other titles in this related area I feel I have as many others do firsthand experience and a little more knowledge than the average person in this area.

My basic problem with the faithful is that they dispute reason / logic when it does not fit it with their beliefs and generally will not acknowledge that they use it all the time but stop where it becomes a deterrent to their god. Have you ever heard the phrase “everything happens for a reason”. Well I agree with this but the difference is if I know the reason I assign it if I do not I say I don’t know. Others will fill in the blank with what feels good to them to explain it even though it cannot be verified.

This for me sums up the faithful position; as said to me by a Christian.

In regards to “directing” the flow of conversation, we are equally guilty. Keep in mind, that you assume just as much as anyone that you are “right” in your beliefs.  Because your beliefs cannot “handle” our beliefs, you label them as fantasy, etc.,  You resort to the “science” and proof excuse. 

They see reason as a negative. To say that I resort to science and proof as an excuse is absurd. To say I cannot handle their beliefs is also absurd. What they really mean is I will not join in on the delusion of pretending something is true when it cannot be verified. I base if I am right or not on things that can be proven or not proven not what I want to be true. I get a little sick and tired of people expecting me to just believe in something they have no proof for and I tried to demonstrate the absolute flaws in this faith based argument by claiming I was Jesus but this still did not get the message across. . See the previous 3 posts as a reference.

http://thefreeman.net/journal/?p=3502 Who Hijacked Reality / #350 What if I am Jesus? How will you know?

http://thefreeman.net/journal/?p=3516  Who Hijacked Reality / #351 Just have a little faith I am Jesus.

http://thefreeman.net/journal/?p=3526  Who Hijacked Reality / #352 My claim of being Jesus and why I did it, could it be true?

Now to present the music analogy;

I posted this after the discussion below it; The Christian I was talking to owns a music store and is what I consider an expert in the area of digital recording thus my reference to his business being based on logic.

Gary David Currie

I think this will sum up my position and yours. Music is a great analogy.We have established that there are patterns in music but at a certain point there is a mystery or soul as you call it to the playing.

……

Here is the difference between you and I in my opinion and the basis for what we talk about and the wall we hit all the time. I am more than willing to let it remain a mystery until we figure it out one day and that will not diminish the beauty of it for me.You on the other hand have assigned the mystery a value and decided that you know what it is without a doubt.

Christian……..

1. My business is based on logic? I don’t know about that… there are plenty of illogical elements in any small business! Opening a small business in the first place is arguably not “logical”!

Is it logical that a 60 year old condenser …microphone is considered awesome and far more desirable than most new ones?

Many instruments are not particularly “logical” in their construction or playing techniques required….

Many things are subjective preferences, instead of “logical”.

2. God created us to “enjoy” each other, to be close to Him, to worship…. God gave us the ability to learn, to be creative, to choose.

God did not create the “method” the disprove Himself — he gave you the option to reject him. You are choosing to reject God, by limiting the criteria that you choose to accept. You are following an outlook that DOES NOT permit the existence of God.

Gary David Currie……

SO you say I say different. You reject my evidence and go on faith. Of course things are based on logic.

Music is all patterns and that is logic. computers are patterns again logic..

You have no basis but your assumption from the bible for …your last statement.

You contradict yourself if god created me then I am following what he created.

Christian…..

• What you are talking about in music is “structure” / “order”

Predictability is actually NOT exciting in music, is it?

”The “rebel”, the “trend-setter”, the unique / signature (shocking / unexpected) elements are actually what take the “…logical” 12 – tones in our scale and make it something EXCITING! Dynamics / interesting sounds.

What you are describing is Elevator Music.

—————–

<if god created me then I am following what he created.>

Gary, now you are abandoning responsibility and blaming God.

You are doing what you want, that is your choice. You seem to think that God can only exist IF He disallows choice and intervenes in human affairs directly, constantly, incessantly….

This product is called LOGIC STUDIO  not FAITH STUDIO, I wonder why..

Gary David Currie…..

Not at all it is still all patterns no matter what you do with them..

I am not blaming god for anything I don’t believe in god that is you.

This is all based on the idea that you have not yet acknowledged  as true or false in your beliefs and we can go from there.

Is god all powerful, omnipotent or not?

Christian……

1. Gary, I think you’re still missing the point about music! Patterns aren’t “exciting”, unexpected things are. Just because you have a knowledge of musical theory, doesn’t make you interesting as a performer or composer.

More “logic” does not produce more compelling music.

2. Have you ever blamed God for anything?

3. Is God all powerful / omnipotent? Are we heading into the “Omnipotence Paradox” here? This has been answered in many different ways by people that have given it much thought. God is simply too far beyond us to be completely quantified by human observation and knowledge.

Gary David Currie…….

 1. I am not missing the point. Maybe patterns are not exciting to you but they might be to someone else. Even if it is unexpected it is still a combination of patterns that are put together as a performer. how you feel about it will not …change this as your feelings are a combination of patterns as well. We all just like the mystery in it but once understood that is what it is.

2. yes when I believed in god but when I realized how silly this actually is has not happened since. I have also blamed the universe and chance and luck and of course they are all only concepts that I have no control over.

3. you still have not answered the question directly yes or no, being ambiguous on the matter or avoiding it by stating that god is beyond or understanding will not change if he is or not. If he is he who cannot be wrong I would think that you would say he is all powerful.

Your answer is simply ridiculous as you have created a concept of god that requires us to acknowledge him as something so much greater than us without any evidence what so ever. I can apply this to anything we do not understand and if you believe it to be true then in your eyes it will appear this way.

I think you avoid this because either answer produces a false god and you just want to keep your god on that pedestal.

Christian…..

1. You seem to be switching terminology/intention here (or using some words in a very broad sense). Of course there is an order / structure to music. What I am writing is that “within musical form”, that there isn’t a “logical” hit, appealing song computer that puts to shame the best human decisions. I guess you are trying to take the “soul” out of music.

 God is himself “creative” and fashioned “creative beings” — that is presumably why we have such a passion for the arts. God put Adam to work rather quickly.

2. Thanks for your answer. (I do mean that sincerely)

3. Gary, I will be happy to answer your question when it is put within the context of some stated “problem”. I assume you are trying to get into the “logical” paradox of “create a rock too big too lift”. That has been discussed so many times by people willing to waste time on it.

In the interest of answering the question, perhaps my favourite response is:

God the father can make a rock too heavy for Jesus (God the Son, manifested in the flesh) to lift.

4. No pedestal is sufficient for God, hence — no idols or graven images are allowed. ;)

Gary David Currie…….

Well isn’t this the perfect analogy for our discussion.

Thanks for the bible story

You see I believe soul is an expression of all the patterns of music and human but still understandable if one wants to take the time to do it. You will not take the time to understand it and call it soul. I love the soul in music but it is not a mystery just like god is not a mystery.

Once again we are back to the main problem which is that all you believe is based on the bible and so you will reference it and I believe in reality and count the bible as a story book written by man. Your proof is the bible which is circular logic and you will not accept anything I offer.

You quote god like he is real but really have no proof that he is.

You think I am trying to take the soul out of music and I say you can’t learn music with only soul and that soul comes from so many things other than music that are all patterns. We actually think in patterns… Where is the soul in math?

                     

ROCK GOD

So how far can we take this analogy? Can we consider the various great musicians such as Beethoven, Mozart, Hendrix and anyone else to be different gods? Just because we do not understand something right now do we have the right to just create an answer and call it true?

I love music it is my passion and there are moments of creativity that I have no immediate explanation for but I will not assign it something not knowing. If we learn by reason in the first place it will stand to reason that this process will continue on even when it appears magical. It may appear that one is playing by feel or that one has soul but there is a reasonable explanation for this if one wants to explore and find it.

I right now just chose to enjoy the process while understanding that the mystery is not attributed to let’s say the guiding hand of Jimi Hendrix. I am not channelling any unseen force. I have no idea why some people are just natural musicians and others can’t play or sing a tune to save their life but I am confident that no god divinely chose to inspire them and not others.

The mystery is only mystery until we find the answer that is true and sometimes the idea is to just enjoy the mystery and not complicate it.

It always boils down to what is true and what is not and how we determine this. I choose reason they choose what makes them feel good.

Seek the truth always

Gary David Currie